I recently started the thread "website 101" and one of the things I wanted to address was to get input from you all on websites of artists that you admire. Although the thread turned out great with a lot of valuble info regarding websites I think that part of my inital post got lost. I find looking at these sites helpful as I am trying to construct one myself...so if you all could post a link, I would appreciate it. I will start off with a few that I really admire:
1. www.teresagoodall.net
2. www.serafinibeadedjewelry.com
3. http://originalsindesigns.net/

I just noticed that all three have black backgounds! I like this as it really emphasizes the color of the designs!

Black is great for gallery sites, not for stores. Unfortunately, that takes place. I'd love to have black or navy, or green forest, or bordo background, but... Professionals told me, that white is better for many things, one of them is text readability. So, I created my site of white. What do you think about? [:I]

Dear Fenian & Zoya,

Hi!

I wrote about this on a previous message thread.As a migrane sufferer it is much easier to read a website that has a soft light colour as a background than white as you tend to get a halo around each letter after long periods at the computer and it can be painful to look at so much white, particularly if the text is light, or brightly coloured, or near a band of a stong contrasting colour, like the violet bar on this website, some websites can even induce migrane headaches and flickery jumpy animations can set off epilepsy in photosensitive epilepsy sufferers.

White, red, hot pink and orange text against black is also equally hard on the eyes, you would be better with jewel colours that have more blue in them like rose quartz pink, amethyst purple or blues and greens. Reds ,orange and yellow tend to vibrate and hum,rather like when you watch US tv and someone is wearing a red or stripy shirt and it appears to be dancing around on it's own.

Zoya is right about black being good for gallery sites where the black acts in a similar way to mount board in a picture frame, putting the emphasis on the work, but you will also notice many of those sites have little text other than maybe a size or price and the name of the piece, most of the body text and the artist's "about me" page will usually be on a plain coloured, or medium grey background with black text. A good example of this is the website of one of my favourite artists, who I have also been lucky enough to meet a few times, Kate McKinnon:

http://www.katemckinnon.com/

Kate's site functions as many things in one, it is a portal to her world, you can visit her gallery, journal - one of the few jewellery ones I visit regularly, you can book classes, buy jewellery some beads and inspirational books, it acts as her calendar and catalogue, everything in one website not dotted about over 3 or 4 places, it is an example of a beautifully designed website that is easy to navigate and read, very simple, but elegant.

Love, Jan

O, NO!!! [:(]
Is that a good design??? So many colors on every page! Any normal person will be driving crazy! The site doesn't have its own style. That's a group of separate pages. As to white. White with some inclusions of any light colors is great. The best sample of that is hospitals. And items display is pretty good against white, nothing distracts your view from the item. Black for the galleries, white for the stores. [:I]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Zoya Gutina O, NO!!! [:(] Is that a good design??? So many colors on every page! Any normal person will be driving crazy! The site doesn't have its own style. That's a group of separate pages. As to white. White with some inclusions of any light colors is great. The best sample of that is hospitals. And items display is pretty good against white, nothing distracts your view from the item. Black for the galleries, white for the stores. [:I]

Withthe greatest respect Zoya, most hospital websites and online college sites are appalling to navigate and seem to have the worst examples of mystery meat navigation I have ever seen, many of them are all about pushing an image without thinking about usability by the public,several years ago the Art College I studied at had a website where things popped up disappeared and you had to chase them round the screen to try to click on them, awful.

I know you are keen to have a stark bright white site that the "professionals" tell you to have, but sometimes the professionals don't get it right - a recent example of the professionals forgetting about usability, ease of use and ignoring the health implications of using certain types of graphics was the launch of the London Olympics campaign, they have withdrawn elements of this due to reports of seizures and headaches from people viewing the site.

I did have a look at your site and your work is very beautiful, but like another site I looked at recently here the work seemed secondary to whatever interface you have, the pictures are beautiful, but too small, I have good eyesight - I can bead with size 22/0 seedbeads without magnification, but I wanted to see some bigger images, so I could see your work in detail, when you can see how well a piece is finished you can see how good the quality of the work is, I love your pieces with the Russian leaves. The enlargements are great, but there is a lot of glare a lightbox may help diffuse the light and prevent hot spots on the images.

The Homepage was where I had problems with my vision, I had to skip it after about 20 seconds, the dissolving images and animation left me with lavender dots in front of my eyes and the pictures were up fully for only a second or two before going to the next one, if they were held for a second or two more, and there was a more gradual fade from one to the other, this would help a lot. Although I have an animation degree I'm not always a fan of animated websites unless there is a good reason to have it.

The main reason I was showing you Kate's and I don't expect everyone to like it, is that in terms of usablity it is very easy to use, I get very frustrated when an artist has 4 or 5 different sites to distract you, when an all in one portal and domain name umbrella will function better and you can always return to what you were looking for before, 4 or 5 seperate sites also usually will mean more expense spent on online space that you could spend on materials, or booth fees.

I don't have a website operational just now, Jeremy (DH) and I are working on elements for one just now for the future, but I want mine to bring all aspects of my work together, teaching, a gallery, online sales, tuorials, Eni Oken's is another fine example of a portal type website, everything is at your finger tips, clear and easy to use and all aspects of Eni's work can be found there, both finished jewellery and her teaching and tutorials.

I hope you find this constructive, I think your work is beautiful, it needs to be shown to it's best advantage.

Love, Jan [:-^]

First of all, I was talking about hospitals - not their websites. [:D]
Second, I was talking not about "professionals", but about PROFESSIONALS. As to myself, I've been in web development for ten years and can recognize a nice web design.

As to my pictures, I perfectly know, that's my weakest side. [:(] And it doesn't depend on the background the pictures are displayed against. In this case white helps me to display my items. I'd love to change all my pictures! Very old camera, no appropriate conditions to make pictures. I know, I could get rid of that bad things, if I gave items - zoomed items - zoomed more items. And I'll do that! Animation. I must confess, you're right. There is always a choice: to play animation for more time to see details - and to play for less (in order not to disturb customers). I'm not sure, that my balance is fine. Anyway, you can skip animation. [:I]

Don't forget, please, - everything is being done by myself with a tiny help of my friend-professionals. One more thing: probably, you noticed how fast my site works! And there is no entire page overloading! [:I]

It was very nice to talk to you, thou I cannot agree with some of your statements. [:I]

I posted this in Spinn's thread, but will post here for Fenian:

Fenian - I doubt I've ever felt so flattered! I'm flattered when someone comments my jewelry, but then again, I'm an aspiring artist and I have to have some measure of confidence in what I produce. On the other hand, I am not a web-techie by a longshot, have been beading (and thus actively browsing jewlery sites with an eye to website design) for only a year, and made my website with Front Page and a smidgeon of html through a billion frustrations and three versions from scratch. That you choose to single it out among so many as an example makes it all worth while. Especially since I know you are somewhat picky in regard. [:D]
Thank you, sincerely!

I'm still blushing LOL! Now that the trauma of acutally getting the site done and up has worn off, your thread has had me thinking about doing a redesign....not radical, just a tweak here and an optimization there.....[8)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Zoya Gutina First of all, I was talking about hospitals - not their websites. [:D] Second, I was talking not about "professionals", but about PROFESSIONALS. As to myself, I've been in web development for ten years and can recognize a nice web design. As to my pictures, I perfectly know, that's my weakest side. [:(] And it doesn't depend on the background the pictures are displayed against. In this case white helps me to display my items. I'd love to change all my pictures! Very old camera, no appropriate conditions to make pictures. I know, I could get rid of that bad things, if I gave items - zoomed items - zoomed more items. And I'll do that! Animation. I must confess, you're right. There is always a choice: to play animation for more time to see details - and to play for less (in order not to disturb customers). I'm not sure, that my balance is fine. Anyway, you can skip animation. [:I] Don't forget, please, - everything is being done by myself with a tiny help of my friend-professionals. One more thing: probably, you noticed how fast my site works! And there is no entire page overloading! [:I] It was very nice to talk to you, thou I cannot agree with some of your statements. [:I]

I don't expect you to agree with everything I say,or agree with what I like, and this thread entirely proves that what constitutes a good website is very subjective, personal taste can be very different and you can't please all of the people all of the time, or some people any of the time, lol! :) This however a sucessful website from a sucessful artist, so something must be working, even if it doesn't for you. By the way your snark about professionals/PROFESSIONALS was uncalled for I have as much training as you, and as much right to an opinion as you or anyone else here does degree, or no degree.

I'm in the same situation as you Jeremy and I are working on my site, I have always designed for myself, though I also have several years of art education and experience with designing a University departmental website where organisation had to be clear, as there were so many people who had input and used it, usability was key. Which was why I mentioned the college/hospital websites,you should have made your wording clearer, incidentally Victorian hospitals used to be very dark places in the days before anaesthetics and modern medicine, hospitals are white and pale greys and greens for reasons of hygene, any spills and blood show up starkly, not because they are easy on the eye.

Jeremy has been taking my photographs and a professional photographer friend is also going to be helping me with this, it's literally a kitchen table operation. I think it's great that you are doing this yourself, many designers do what we are trying to do,partly out of practicality and for reasons of cost, there are plenty of template sites, but I'm sure that with your knowledge of working for the web that you can spot them a mile off as I can.

The lightbox need not be an expensive investment, but it will improve your pictures in leaps and bounds even with a cheap camera,as long as it has a reasonable macro lense, the better the picture the less you have to do to it later. The lightbox Jeremy has been using is made from a cardboard box, tracing paper, construction paper and scotch tape, the materials were less than $10, it sits on the kitchen table and we use the light from the window to take pictures with, a table lamp with a daylight bulb will give you an even artificial light that isn't too yellow, or blue, you can also hire equipment for a day or two.

I can skip animation,true, but I don't spend a long time browsing a website that I can only enjoy/endure bits of and it may put others off too, I'm only talking about a second, or two added to each photograph to tweak the timing. It's little things that take a site from mildly irritating to gorgeous.

The site does work fast especially when loading the pictures, because they are so small your pictures in their small size barely take up an area the size of a postcard, and get lost on a 17" screen, the animation still runs too fast to be comfortable. I DO like your aesthetic I just wanna see what makes your work yours and most of all I WANNA SEE YOUR WORK, Lol! [:D][:p]

Love, Jan

I hope it's okay to post this site. http://www.neimanmarcus.com/index.jhtml
I look at Neiman's from time to time just to drool :-) If you go to the jewelry section and want to see 'pearls' you can view all earrings on the same page, and if you see something of interest, you mouse on it and it appears to the right of the screen and you can enlarge the image. I also like the description feature. It states just the facts. None of this piece is made of...with 15 crystals...sticks to the product and give plenty of info. While I realize all this is mass produced by different designers for Neiman's, The site layout, and colors used make it very easy to navigate. No frills, just a clear picture of the jewelry on a simple background, and description.

Okay, another favorite is a friend and mentor. Here's her site.
http://www.wiregems.com/

I hope the Neiman's site is okay to reference, and yes, I'm aware they have the big bucks to spend on design and must have quite a overhead of employees who maintain their site. However the simplicity of the photo's and descriptions would not be too difficult for the average folk :-)

Original Sin...I chose your website as it is one of the few that I really admire...again I like the black backgound as the gorgeous colors of your designs really contrast wonderfully and overall I like the layout of your gallery..the photos I feel are superb...I guess I gravitate towards sites such as yours and I hope someday to constuct my own that is just as sophisticated. I think some people who make jewelry are so impatient to get a site up and haven't mastered good site construction and have substandard photos...I feel awful for them. I would never purchase anything from such a site. Perhaps a poor analogy but it's like someone showcasing an expensive line of clothing in a poorly lit garage.

Wirenut: No I think it was an excellent choice to mention Neiman Marcus..I would expect only excellence with their website...gorgeous designs and the prices!! It truly was lovely to look at. Your friends site is okay...I think her photos could have a better enlargement option...looks a bit too busy for my liking ( although the pendant page seemed to pull it off even though she has multi designs there) but it certainly is a good one that could be tweaked a bit to be a great one....her bracelets....do you think they are a bit underpriced?

Zoya and Jan: thanks for your input...interesting dialogue between you two[:D]

QUOTE: I don't expect you to agree... Love, Jan

Let me explain you what I mean...

1. PROFESSIONAL in this particular field, in my opinion, is the person, who is well-educated not only in web design, and art, but also in psychology, in ergonomics, and so on. What's fine for computer gurus is not always fine for customers, who want to buy jewelry.

2. I said - hospitals, not hospital sites, it should be clearly understandable.

QUOTE: ...for reasons of hygiene, any spills and blood show up starkly, not because they are easy on the eye...

O, not only! Many people think like you, but initial point is different - everything comes or should come from our psycho. By the way, what works great for students, can not work for buyers!

3. Painful... Pictures... I'll find the right decision!

4. Flash. OK, I'll make it play longer!

5. My site works incredibly fast not because of the picture sizes, because of new technique - AJAX. The site has only tree pages, some of the parts on the third (main) page are being refreshed according a customer request. I've not seen the sites completely AJAX-driven. And the site is perfectly manageable! Some SEO problems...

Heeeeeeeee... I wish you good luck!
Keep in touch!
[:I]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Wirenut I hope it's okay to post this site. http://www.neimanmarcus.com/index.jhtml...

It cost Neiman hundreds of thousands, trust me! Nothing particular in descriptions... Pages overloading makes me sick after my site... [:I]
What's fine - pictures, side enlargements and zoomable and drag&droppable pictures in popup. I was thinking about floating windows, but decided not to use them for a while. In general, customers don't need them.

QUOTE: Okay, another favorite is a friend and mentor. Here's her site. http://www.wiregems.com/

I'm lost in menus! On top, on the left, hardly visible mix of top-and-left at the bottom... I don't see links to the pages about privacy, security, shipping and some other very important for customers pages. Stone samples page - veeeeeeeeeeeery long and scrollable, layout is broken... I'm tired to count the number of colors... And color combination forces me to leave this site immediately! OK, I'm kidding. Everything is not as bad as yet! [:I]

Dear Zora,

Hi!

Thanks for listening, I appreciate that. I haven't heard of Ajax, but I'm sure Jeremy has, sounds interesting, can you recommend a good book on the subject?

"O, not only! Many people think like you, but initial point is different - everything comes or should come from our psycho. By the way, what works great for students, can not work for buyers!"

Well that's partly down to not having any money when you are a student, Lol! I think that there is a real difference between what is required when designing a site for a college project for an imaginary product and creating a site in the real world, you have to judge that most people don't have that same experience with computers, I think this is where the female students in my class had an advantage over many of the more geeky males, as many of us did like to go shopping now and again.[:D] There are also many things that you haveto fulfill at college to make your marks in assessments and prove your geekiness that may not be always needed in the real world.

When I was working on web projects I was always aware of ergonomics and I was particularly interested in how certain visual elements could affect health as well as photosensitive epilepsy and migranes, many dislexics find certain sites more difficult to view. I have one friend in Scotland who wears coloured lenses in his spectacles to reduce this visual interference. I think that having friends and relatives with these conditions has affected my awareness of this and so that has made me more cautious and curious when designing, plus you often see that these conditions can bring out the worst in other people, that can really affect your personal psychology. I just wish more about designing for disabilities and medical conditions was discussed in colleges when teaching design for the web.

You may or may not be interested in reading these web pages,but I find them interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosensitive_epilepsy#In_popular_culture

http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photo.html

http://www.epilepsy.org.uk/info/photo.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dislexia

Ok, I'm a nerd when it comes to this stuff and being married to a neuroscientist means that I'm doubly so...[(-D] However I'm aware it may put others to sleep, so I'll sign off.[|)][zzz]

Love, Jan

Wasn't Edinburgh College of Art was it, Jan? I have had wicked fantasies about finding the designer and hanging her or him off the Forth Bridge by their tippy-toes in a storm [}:)]

I work for neuroscientists :-)

(We just 'met' on the other forum incase you haven't seen my reply to your welcome)

Margi
in Edinburgh

edited for typo

Dear Margi,

HI!

Yes it was Edinburgh, I did the first 3 years of my degree at Duncan of Jordanstone in Dundee and transfered to Edinburgh after Jeremy and I got married in 1998, it was around that time that the awful site I mentioned first appeared, you grab one leg, I'll take the other :) I sent the guys at "websites that suck" the address of the Edinburgh website, I don't know if they ever mentioned it.

You work for neuroscientists, do you work in Edinburgh? if so maybe we know some of the same people, you can email me through the forum if you like. I haven't read your reply at delphi yet, I have been out having the mop cut, I have to get a new passport photo taken, (Yuk) it's nice to be able to see again.[:D]

Good to see you here too[:)]

Love, Jan